>Yes, that's my projection. Sorry for the ad hominem argument. It just smelled like a rhetorical trick, so I got carried away.
Fair enough. There are so many dishonest people arguing on both sides that one begins to expect the worst.
>Either God exists, or it doesn't. Of atheists and deists, one group is wrong. As a matter of fact.
Agreed. But one can never prove a negative. We can never prove that there is no plane of existence where another being might exist. That's not to say science shouldn't try. Science should, of course, explore every aspect of existence that it can test and observe.
>Politeness is secondary, however: we face Freaking Real Death! I bet many would like to solve that problem (and there are slim hopes that it will eventually be).
Of course. I don't see why a theist should have a problem with trying to cure death. For a Christian (for example), the story of the tower of babel should be enough to feel comfortable that man wont be allowed to do "go to far". If it happens, then it was obviously allowed.
>Hey, my non-believer's very soul is at stake!
Honestly, it is this very urgency from both sides that causes the problems I think. If the climate change situation has demonstrated anything, it has demonstrated that my urgency can not inspire you to action.
>science has a hope of detecting (and proving the presence of) that thing
We can't even detect the things we think we know about (e.g. dark matter). We can't expect to be able to detect things we don't even know about yet.
>not only God is observable
Not God, but actions of God. And I agree, some occurrences in a holy book should be able to be discovered.
>If we don't (it's pretty clear we don't), then something is off.
You seem to be assuming God would be in the same plane of existence as us. If I build a house I am not confined to that house, why would God be constrained by his own creation.
>saying that the existence of God can't be tested strikes me as an extremely weak justification for belief in God
It wasn't my intention to justify belief in anything, but rather defuse the absolute certainty of a position that can never be absolutely certain. My hope is that if people realize that no one has or can have all the answers that they'll stop trying to convince everyone all the time.
From what I've seen, the people who preach their message to strangers the loudest tend to be the worst representatives said message, regardless of faith (or lack thereof).
Fair enough. There are so many dishonest people arguing on both sides that one begins to expect the worst.
>Either God exists, or it doesn't. Of atheists and deists, one group is wrong. As a matter of fact.
Agreed. But one can never prove a negative. We can never prove that there is no plane of existence where another being might exist. That's not to say science shouldn't try. Science should, of course, explore every aspect of existence that it can test and observe.
>Politeness is secondary, however: we face Freaking Real Death! I bet many would like to solve that problem (and there are slim hopes that it will eventually be).
Of course. I don't see why a theist should have a problem with trying to cure death. For a Christian (for example), the story of the tower of babel should be enough to feel comfortable that man wont be allowed to do "go to far". If it happens, then it was obviously allowed.
>Hey, my non-believer's very soul is at stake!
Honestly, it is this very urgency from both sides that causes the problems I think. If the climate change situation has demonstrated anything, it has demonstrated that my urgency can not inspire you to action.
>science has a hope of detecting (and proving the presence of) that thing
We can't even detect the things we think we know about (e.g. dark matter). We can't expect to be able to detect things we don't even know about yet.
>not only God is observable
Not God, but actions of God. And I agree, some occurrences in a holy book should be able to be discovered.
>If we don't (it's pretty clear we don't), then something is off.
You seem to be assuming God would be in the same plane of existence as us. If I build a house I am not confined to that house, why would God be constrained by his own creation.
>saying that the existence of God can't be tested strikes me as an extremely weak justification for belief in God
It wasn't my intention to justify belief in anything, but rather defuse the absolute certainty of a position that can never be absolutely certain. My hope is that if people realize that no one has or can have all the answers that they'll stop trying to convince everyone all the time.
From what I've seen, the people who preach their message to strangers the loudest tend to be the worst representatives said message, regardless of faith (or lack thereof).